Classes Discussion

[jova]

First off please do not think this is a moaning thread its just things I have thought about or other players are saying:

Classes
I play all three classes so I am not biased to anyone class but below are some thoughts

Wizards
This class in my opinion is just right they have lots of damage dealing and can level extremely fast yet have relatively low hp which is how it should be.
They can’t solo every boss and are needed to help kill some bosses (by warriors!!).

Warriors
Poo'est class now to be honest in a fight between a wiz or Tao you stand no chance unless player makes stupid mistake or they are afk!

Though they can solo almost every boss due to low durra on belts helmets and shoes you either have to have plenty of spare kit or group up.

Warriors have always been the boss hunting class but are not really needed as Tao’s can kill the same bosses easier and use less dura.

Taoist
Most over powered class in my opinion, for example

GW war I was poisoned by silo with a protection ring on (was good fun btw and this is not a dig a silo :P) after gting I drank half a bag of XL Magic Pots at still died to being poisoned it was taking off 800 hp a time which is more than the highest warrior can do to my wiz)

The items they have now seem to have equal dc to a warrior kit (well almost) and still huge SC so they can poison and hit making them better than wiz and warrior.

I soloed (though I had help getting there) exZT on 107 Tao just by poisoning.

Taos have always been the hardest to level and a support class but now any one Tao can solo every boss in game and level with equal speed to a wiz or warrior.

I know this is an extreme server but Taos have always been the support class not the main class.

You can even get the exp from killing things with poison so you just run into a room (e.g.: exWT) and poison everything in site and sit in the corner and wait for the exp, only downside is you have to pick your own cash up :P

I think the classes need bringing in line maybe the new skills being brought in might do this?

/Jarad

[Morzan]

Do what prov / cerb did on evo lengthen time between poison ticks

From when I last played : taos pwnt, wizzys sucked at everything (Aries wale and silo could all level at the same speed as me ) and warriors were pretty damn good

Eg -ExEC : desuko on, full lvl 140 lord kit highest mc etc etc and I couldn't even scratch exEC
Aries however could solo it at lvl 135 :S

Stuff probably has changed since I quit for evo but meh it's how I remember it

[wale]

mmmmmmm i agree lol
but about getting the exp from poisoning thats not right u need to psn them again just befor they die to get the exp
i am tao and i feel like i have 3 classes in 1 and dont think that any war or wizz can take me down
and if i pvp with a tao no one will die <if that tao same lvl or something>
lol curse the wizz or the warr then psn and u can go afk !!!
the only boss i didnt try is minox after reboot or after they added the other bosses in there dono if i can solo there tbh ill lose all my kit dura once i am in kr thats why i dont go minox in tao.....
i want some hard bosses that really drop something worth to make a grp and go for it .
ty

[jova]

Taoist
Most over powered class in my opinion, for example

GW war I was poisoned by silo with a protection ring on (was good fun btw and this is not a dig a silo :P) after gting I drank half a bag of XL Magic Pots at still died to being poisoned it was taking off 800 hp a time which is more than the highest warrior can do to my wiz)

The items they have now seem to have equal dc to a warrior kit (well almost) and still huge SC so they can poison and hit making them better than wiz and warrior.

I soloed (though I had help getting there) exZT on 107 Tao just by poisoning.

Taos have always been the hardest to level and a support class but now any one Tao can solo every boss in game and level with equal speed to a wiz or warrior.

I know this is an extreme server but Taos have always been the support class not the main class.

You can even get the exp from killing things with poison so you just run into a room (e.g.: exWT) and poison everything in site and sit in the corner and wait for the exp, only downside is you have to pick your own cash up :P

/Jarad

I Agree Taos are way too powerful compared to character of other classes at the same level. And to top it off your making Tao items better and better.

Warriors only real way to keep up is to get leveling tokens and x4

Plus one thing that i just dont get. Silo Complains that he cannot solo Red Thunder Zumas, you dont say go level or hunt with friends you make it easier. I Think silo is fantastic and this is no way a complaint about silo. in fact maybe the fact that he dosnt have the hishest warrior in game also is because he deep down knows that warriors have been made utter rubbish coompared to other classes!

you find out that i can manage so solo minox being the highest warrior in game and though i need help getting to the kr, you make it way too hard (though i did encourage you to make SOME changes to make it harder) and say hunt with friends while making it possible for taos to hallu or trap everything in there. and wizzes tame or tu everything in there.

I also know you have got wind of where im hunting currently, that you have changed the drop rates and will make that even harder. and its not as if im evening solo'ing i go there with my husband. who now wont go because of the drops being worthless to us! infact im more likely to group than most people in game because i play with my rl husband! its just the only thing of value to us is tokens.actualy of value to most people and thats why people are starting to only trade in tokens and no longer gold

jovax

[Petroni]

Some interesting points raised, some are correct and some are not. I'll take a stab at them anyway.

Basically I agree that Wizzies are about ok, warriors are crap, because they simply are the most boring class and always have been (kill or be killed meatshields) and taos are the best fun on this servers.

A few misconceptions

1 - Toas cannot poison 800 a tick. What you suffered would have been the PA bug. This bug works liek this, a tao poisons and then a warrior hits. The PA starts doing huge damage but th taos poison prolongs it for ages. Its a bloody nuisance but its not the poison that causes the damage, but the poison prolongs the length of the PA damage. The solution would be to reduce the PA on items but that would just make warriors worse so I would not support that. Best damage on silo i can do is about 115 a tick which was tonight when I was testing on Silo/Penny to demonstrate to Esmee. If you would like a personal demo in game I am happy to do so wearing any kit you like but his misconception may be the basis of your post so it is important to kill the rumour of 800 damage by taos before it gets believed

2/ Taos get exp by running into a room andpoisoning everything and sitting in a corner. True, if you are poisoning noob mobs, not true if you are poisoning ExWT mobs. Poison works for a long time but the exp is only available for a limited time. I am not sure exactly how many secons but I can test it if i can get a consistant SC cast (which I currently cannot. If you want to get the poison exp, you have to ensure that you poison the mob about 10 seconds before it dies. To know when it is going to die you would have to rev every poisoned mob and then judge when it is 10 seconds from falling over and then poison it again. The reality is that you cannot poison and rev every mob so you use poison to help mkill and to stop regen but use Spirit Winfd to hit them as they die and grab the exp. Whenever you see gold on the floor, it means a tao DID NOT get the exp, If they got the exp they would have got the gold automatically put into their bag.

3/ Taos cannot kill any boss. Usually that would be true but by design, the MinoX boss KR has been created to prevent precisely that. I try to get into the room and get my butt handed to be on a plate. The reason you cannot get out of the KR door is precisely to stop taos from owning that room/boss. It was my suggestion to put Tadanagas in the room because they cancel out the poison and curse and beat the liiving crap out of me when they are not posioned or cursed. The aim was to require a multi class group to go to the room.

It was also me that pointed out to Lone that the ZT KR was a breeze and once there you could camp it and even mow the damn lawn in between kills with no risk whatever to your afk char/s. That is simply not right. Once again I suggested to him that some form of tough reception committee of mobs be used to avoid camping. So you have a choice, good drops which are hard to get, or crap drops which are easy to get.

I did not attack the sabuk or great walls tonight as it would have been unfair as SoL had no tao. If Wale had been on we could have countered each others skills and it would have been great fun. But Warriors want the mega dc and dc enhancing skills that can chop lumps out of others but when they get stopped from doing so suddenly its a problem. Well when I get tagged by a warrior let me tell it it bloody well hurts and it only takes a few hits to knock my hp out so please lets get a more balanced debate on this. If a tao allows themselves to get whacked by a warrior they will fall over in not a long time so the idea is not too.

On an extreme server there are extreme stats (hence the name) and taos are FUN to play so rather than making them less fun, why not start one instead? then you can appreciate the advantages and the disadvantages. I enjoy playing both my wizz and my toa and although I have just started a warrior, I know I will be bored with it because warriors are frankly a damn boring class. soz but they are.

Happy to debate any of these points in game or here

Hugs

Penny/Silo

[LookAtMe]

Another reason gold might b left on the floor might b because they use shift to kill mobs.
I do this as it deals equal damage to mobs since u dont use slaying or other skills on 1 individual mob also causes gold to drop on the floor if it is not the mob directly infront of u

[jova]

Some interesting points raised, some are correct and some are not. I'll take a stab at them anyway.

Basically I agree that Wizzies are about ok, warriors are crap, because they simply are the most boring class and always have been (kill or be killed meatshields) and taos are the best fun on this servers.

A few misconceptions

1 - Toas cannot poison 800 a tick. What you suffered would have been the PA bug. This bug works liek this, a tao poisons and then a warrior hits. The PA starts doing huge damage but th taos poison prolongs it for ages. Its a bloody nuisance but its not the poison that causes the damage, but the poison prolongs the length of the PA damage. The solution would be to reduce the PA on items but that would just make warriors worse so I would not support that. Best damage on silo i can do is about 115 a tick which was tonight when I was testing on Silo/Penny to demonstrate to Esmee. If you would like a personal demo in game I am happy to do so wearing any kit you like but his misconception may be the basis of your post so it is important to kill the rumour of 800 damage by taos before it gets believed

i was standing in GT drinking bunnie after bunnie of MP as i had pro on and could not save myself.

I poisoned my lvl 7 foxes on tao and could not heal them to save them with 1 attack of poison.

2/ Taos get exp by running into a room andpoisoning everything and sitting in a corner. True, if you are poisoning noob mobs, not true if you are poisoning ExWT mobs. Poison works for a long time but the exp is only available for a limited time. I am not sure exactly how many secons but I can test it if i can get a consistant SC cast (which I currently cannot. If you want to get the poison exp, you have to ensure that you poison the mob about 10 seconds before it dies. To know when it is going to die you would have to rev every poisoned mob and then judge when it is 10 seconds from falling over and then poison it again. The reality is that you cannot poison and rev every mob so you use poison to help mkill and to stop regen but use Spirit Winfd to hit them as they die and grab the exp. Whenever you see gold on the floor, it means a tao DID NOT get the exp, If they got the exp they would have got the gold automatically put into their bag.

You just poison the mobs before they die /td hint screen can tell you when they are low on health so easy peasy as I have done this on my tao in exWT kr

3/ Taos cannot kill any boss. Usually that would be true but by design, the MinoX boss KR has been created to prevent precisely that. I try to get into the room and get my butt handed to be on a plate. The reason you cannot get out of the KR door is precisely to stop taos from owning that room/boss. It was my suggestion to put Tadanagas in the room because they cancel out the poison and curse and beat the liiving crap out of me when they are not posioned or cursed. The aim was to require a multi class group to go to the room.

Wale solo's EM, BL (so entire of nest) I have soloed exZT on a tao i grp with 2 or 3 people usually as most would as you stated die in minox room though Hroar has said he has solod it. The drops though are not worth group hunting it.

Most people will now (bar exZT MinoX) wait for an invaison to be triggerd and go kill the bosses eg: Taganda, WTS, DD, ES, KS)

It was also me that pointed out to Lone that the ZT KR was a breeze and once there you could camp it and even mow the damn lawn in between kills with no risk whatever to your afk char/s. That is simply not right. Once again I suggested to him that some form of tough reception committee of mobs be used to avoid camping. So you have a choice, good drops which are hard to get, or crap drops which are easy to get.

Good drops if you call leveling tokens and pots good i guess its really worth making it harder o.0 out of 12 kills best we got was a 202 ring (yip you guessedit a tao ring:P) couple P devil items and leveling tokens which drop in BDD easier lol

I did not attack the sabuk or great walls tonight as it would have been unfair as SoL had no tao. If Wale had been on we could have countered each others skills and it would have been great fun. But Warriors want the mega dc and dc enhancing skills that can chop lumps out of others but when they get stopped from doing so suddenly its a problem. Well when I get tagged by a warrior let me tell it it bloody well hurts and it only takes a few hits to knock my hp out so please lets get a more balanced debate on this. If a tao allows themselves to get whacked by a warrior they will fall over in not a long time so the idea is not too.

Yes getting hit hurts but on my 108 tao (yes i know his a n00b) i fought two guild members at sabuk as they were boared - Aries 138 war, UK dragon 108 wiz i did not use curse however i used poiosn and admitidly i died however if i had not puried them they would have died, should poison really be thst effective? I mean i stoped playing a wiz coz a 120 tao can own me by poiosoning and then gting lol.


On an extreme server there are extreme stats (hence the name) and taos are FUN to play so rather than making them less fun, why not start one instead? then you can appreciate the advantages and the disadvantages. I enjoy playing both my wizz and my toa and although I have just started a warrior, I know I will be bored with it because warriors are frankly a damn boring class. soz but they are.

I understand this is an extreme server but even in extreme shouldnt it still be balaced. I have played on wale and my god he owns before you say start a tao look at the player count, most of the original high players have given up and the second highest tao ingame agrees with me it should be more balanced.

Happy to debate any of these points in game or here

Hugs

Penny/Silo

I am not moaning if i wanted to be a pker and be able to kill everything solo bar minoX which isnt really worth the dura damage or the hastle I would lvl my tao.

pepole who have left or are playing less have said this to me hence the post.

I count myself as one of the most active players and i want to see this server thrive not dwindle.

/jarad

PS someone accept my forum registration getting fed up of using mrs lol!!

[TheMachine]

The problem is mir is so hard to balance. Ive not been on 1 server yet where all the chars are balanced. You just have to get used to chars pros and cons.

[LookAtMe]

PS someone accept my forum registration getting fed up of using mrs lol!!

if its not been done yet pm irc

[Petroni]

Post is a tad big to copy again so I wont. Couple of things

You said
"You just poison the mobs before they die /td hint screen can tell you when they are low on health so easy peasy as I have done this on my tao in exWT kr"

** You can't do this, to refresh the td you have to hit each individual mob before you point your cursor at it, or you have to rev it and then guess when its about to fall as I said. Try playing a tao for a bit with the mobs you are talking about and see for yourself. You think its easy, try it and then let me know what you think

I mentioned that warriors can knock me down fast if they can hit me but i did not really develop the point that the skill attack combinations of a warrior on this server are really outragous. I don't go on about it as frankly, its an extreme server an thats what i would expect but just do the math. Take DC your top end, apply the bonus hit rate you get thanks to luck and then multiply the result by the lvl 3 x150% Flaming Sword and thats before throw in a doiuble Twin Drake Blade hits, not sure what that adds up to but something close to half my hp in less than 2 seconds (oh i forgot Rage). But If you got it, flaunt it I say.

As a tao, and not just any tao, the highest tao on the server, I had a little over 500 dc, which is all i can use, not the 2000 hits a warrior can do,. Add to that my crap accuracy was so bad, I could not even hit the damn sub boss in ExWT let alone kill it. Now I am not looking to kill everything solo a sI know some like to do, as I dont think that healthy. I will always group with anyone anywhere, but if you are going to start knocking down the tao skills, then the warrior skills would be would be on my list at the same time "hold on, what about etc etc". But that would not be very constructive.

This debate started because of the supposed 800 per tick poison damage but as that is not actually real (you didnt mention the PA bug in your reply but Lone can fill you in on the detail of that I am sure) and the reality is about 115 at best with an average of 75 being more realistic although I can test some more if you want better detail.

Maybe we should start the debate again after a reality check. If there is a need to rebalance the classes I am very happy for that to happen. My only request is that we rebalance the things that are wrong, rather than try and fix something that isn't actually a problem that can be fixed.

By the way, I dont know if you had a reason for not logging out when you were poisoned but if you simply log and reconnect, the poison damage drops to 1 per tick.

Hugs